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	<title>Comments on: Feminism or Chivalry?</title>
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	<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/</link>
	<description>Erik Pukinskis</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowedin.net/blog/?p=756#comment-551</guid>
		<description>Well ain't that a kicker.  There's a certain unconscious pressure to order objects in speech  -- Macaroni and Cheese, Milk and Cookies, Meat and Potatoes, the good, the band and ugly.  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well ain&#8217;t that a kicker.  There&#8217;s a certain unconscious pressure to order objects in speech  &#8212; Macaroni and Cheese, Milk and Cookies, Meat and Potatoes, the good, the band and ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowedin.net/blog/?p=756#comment-550</guid>
		<description>Jesse: thanks for the reference!  I'll check it out.

It should be noted that the actual title is "You Just Don't Understand: &lt;b&gt;Women and Men&lt;/b&gt; in Conversation".  I know you probably used "Men and Women" because it's idiomatic, but I just wanted to emphasize that our idioms often give men primacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse: thanks for the reference!  I&#8217;ll check it out.</p>
<p>It should be noted that the actual title is &#8220;You Just Don&#8217;t Understand: <b>Women and Men</b> in Conversation&#8221;.  I know you probably used &#8220;Men and Women&#8221; because it&#8217;s idiomatic, but I just wanted to emphasize that our idioms often give men primacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Beach</title>
		<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/#comment-549</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Beach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowedin.net/blog/?p=756#comment-549</guid>
		<description>This is a fairly widespread phenomenon and Deborah Tannen writes extensively about it.  She's a social linguist.  I'd suggest "You Just Don't Understand: Men and Women in Conversation".  There are definitely gender differences in conversation styles and these play out in mixed gender groups with very strong patterns, much like the ones you mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a fairly widespread phenomenon and Deborah Tannen writes extensively about it.  She&#8217;s a social linguist.  I&#8217;d suggest &#8220;You Just Don&#8217;t Understand: Men and Women in Conversation&#8221;.  There are definitely gender differences in conversation styles and these play out in mixed gender groups with very strong patterns, much like the ones you mention.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel</title>
		<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowedin.net/blog/?p=756#comment-548</guid>
		<description>Kevin Makice's comment is spot on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Makice&#8217;s comment is spot on.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Makice</title>
		<link>http://snowedin.net/blog/2007/01/17/feminism-or-chivalry/#comment-547</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Makice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowedin.net/blog/?p=756#comment-547</guid>
		<description>While I think that these observations are astute and have seen them at play myself, I think there are other dynamics at work.

I speak freely in most groups now. I didn't always. I was taught (probably not explictly) to wait for pauses in conversation and then interject. In addition to having to be patient, I also had to overcome quite a bit of personal doubt that I had anything constructive to say, or fight the fear that the first words out of my mouth would be ridiculed. Over time, the less I cared about the reactions, the more easily I was able to speak. While you describe your observations of women above, I think it is a role in conversation with which I very much identify.

In working with various groups of students this past semester, I noticed similar kinds of things arise with not just women but timid men and most international students. There are exceptions, of course (one who might be reading this), but I don't think it is gendered as much as issues of power, confidence and culture. The setting matters a great deal. The same people who said nothing in conversations with a dozen other people opened up easily in 1:1 or breakout discussions with just a few people.

The eye cues are great techniques for including voices, as are direct questions to people you have noticed are trying to say things (or even those who you want to hear from who haven't said anything).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I think that these observations are astute and have seen them at play myself, I think there are other dynamics at work.</p>
<p>I speak freely in most groups now. I didn&#8217;t always. I was taught (probably not explictly) to wait for pauses in conversation and then interject. In addition to having to be patient, I also had to overcome quite a bit of personal doubt that I had anything constructive to say, or fight the fear that the first words out of my mouth would be ridiculed. Over time, the less I cared about the reactions, the more easily I was able to speak. While you describe your observations of women above, I think it is a role in conversation with which I very much identify.</p>
<p>In working with various groups of students this past semester, I noticed similar kinds of things arise with not just women but timid men and most international students. There are exceptions, of course (one who might be reading this), but I don&#8217;t think it is gendered as much as issues of power, confidence and culture. The setting matters a great deal. The same people who said nothing in conversations with a dozen other people opened up easily in 1:1 or breakout discussions with just a few people.</p>
<p>The eye cues are great techniques for including voices, as are direct questions to people you have noticed are trying to say things (or even those who you want to hear from who haven&#8217;t said anything).</p>
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